Coming of age in a society that mocks minorities and excels in making these communities feel like the ”other” can have long-lasting psychological effects on these various groups. This type of deranged behavior must always be addressed no matter the circumstances, no matter the profession. And for Román Zaragoza, who plays Sasappis on CBS’ brand new hit comedy, Ghosts, he feels a responsibility to address the America-sized elephant in the room through his art: film and theatre. “With the platform I have, and through acting/producing, I want to be able to call attention to these issues that are often forgotten about,” says Zaragoza via zoom. ”As someone who is mixed race, dual-identities, it’s important that I am able to tell the stories that not only resonate with me, but they also speak to a larger picture. Something we can all learn from on issues that only a few benefit from.”
Although we sit on Zoom, sharing a human connection through the reflection of our electric mirrors, Zaragoza’s energy radiates in a welcoming way reminiscent of carefree college days, kicking it with your homies in person. We chop it over the course of 30 minutes—Spider-Man (of course), How I Met Your Mother (of course), humble beginnings (of course)—but it’s the conversations about racism, preserving Native language and culture that draws the passion from Zaragoza’s heart. There’s a sincerity to the words he chooses when speaking about Native and Asian people that can also be found when speaking about other cultures and racial backgrounds. See, we all can learn from each other, regardless of where we’re from or how we look. That’s one of the beauties of acting; it’s a shameless transferring and sharing of stories from one life experience to another, a true act of empathy. And it’s through this conversation with the brilliant Román Zaragoza about his origin story, his time at Oregon Shakespeare Festival, snagging the opportunity of a lifetime in CBS’ Ghosts and his responsibility to bring attention to injustices of his people, that we find out how amazing a creative Zaragoza is and also how forward empathetic he is as a human being.
This is the conversation.
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Marc: Alright, so, walk me through it: your dad is a legendary actor, and your mother, a superhero in her own right, is a college business professor. Is it safe to say you were inspired to get started in the field of acting/directing/producing by not only watching your father’s passion for the craft but also seeing how dedicated your mother was to the profession of teaching?—which, as a former aspiring teacher myself, weirdly enough shares similarities with directing a cast of actors/actresses.
Román: I love this question right off the back because I owe so much to my parents. We grew up in a studio apartment in NYC, my parents and my two older sisters and a three-story bunk bed. My parents put all of their money into us, whatever we wanted to do. They really believed in us, and they wanted to give us the opportunities that they didn’t have when they were kids. My mom is a literal superhero; I remember during the MTA strike in 2003, there were no subways, and my mom would rollerblade alongside me as I scootered down to school about forty blocks. She would then go to work, work the full day, and it was just incredible. What you’re saying about the teacher being like a producer is so true because you’re inspiring people every day, and my mom taught for thirty-one years at the same university. I was lucky enough to be at her retirement party and to see all the people that she impacted; that’s what I want to do with film, that’s why I wanted to be an actor. To see the impact that you could have on communities, it’s so important. But hundred percent, my mom is one of my biggest inspirations along with my father; I look up to parents so much.
M: So you attend California State University Northridge, you graduate with a degree in Film Production—was that your sole decision or was it more of a family decision considering how close you are to your parents? For me, saying that I wanted to do something along the creative lines, they would hit me with, “Hey, don’t you want to do something that makes some money?” (They share a laugh). So which process was it for you?
R: It’s funny to look back at that. Because I’m the youngest of three, it was a lot less pressure for me; my two older sisters consisted of one that went the traditional route to college at UCLA while the other sister didn’t go to college and instead became an amazing singer/songwriter and killing it. Once my parents looked at both of them and with each of my sisters having struggles in their own paths, my parents looked at me with a “you could do whatever you want” [attitude]. But the funny thing for me is I was set to go to UCLA; my sister went there, and I thought that I would get accepted into the Musical Theatre program that my sister went to, I knew everyone there, and I was confident. I was actually pretty cocky at seven-teen like we all are (they both laugh); we have the biggest heads, we think we’re so talented (laughter ensues), and I didn’t get in. My five-year plan was scrapped. And I was lost. I didn’t get into any other colleges except for my safety school, California State University Northridge-which I didn’t know too much about. But once I didn’t get into UCLA, I did more research [on Northridge], and I figured out they had an amazing Film Production program. I talked to my guidance counselor, and I was having a bit of a quarter-life crisis; you know how it is when you’re seven-teen/eighteen. And she told me to go there for film production, and I was getting into film during my senior year of high school, so I thought, yeah, let’s do it, and I’ll be acting on the outside. My parents were supportive, and because the state school is much cheaper, they were able to help me financially. If I would’ve gone to UCLA, I would still be in debt right now, so going to a state school helped me out in the long run.
M: But while you’re there at Northridge, you do some work with the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. How did that play a part in helping you discover more about yourself as an actor/producer and also a person?
R: man, you’re asking amazing questions! Its almost as if I wrote the questions and then handed them to you to ask me (they both laugh) because this is—
M: Hey, man, don’t give it away! I don’t want Carly to know I’m not doing my job, c’mon (the laughter quickly consumes them).
R: Seriously,—Oregon Shakespeare Festival means so much to me. It was after my third year of college, I had one year left, and I was approached by the OSF to come do a play that I had done in LA that they were picking up to do up there. So, I felt it was an amazing opportunity; I didn’t know too much about OSF, then I learned more, and it’s like Disneyland for theatre. Then I left college, I still did online school while doing OSF, and spent three years with OSF, and it completely changed my outlook on acting, storytelling, and my life as a whole because I was able to bring stories about people who looked like me and tap more into my Native side to tell these difficult stories that had a passion for healing. I was able to talk about stories dealing with Asian cultures and history. Being able to be a chameleon between both was a dream as a mixed-race person because I never felt like I could fit a hundred percent here or there, but with OSF, I found a home where they made me feel like you’re enough and I could play a Cherokee man in the morning, and that night I could play a Chinese factory worker. And I felt that was so cool! That’s my dream! It was so fun to be able to put those stories on stage. Through that, I even made a performance piece about identity because I was trying to figure that out for myself, and OSF helped me love all the aspects of myself and remind myself that I am more than ethnic background; I’m more than what people see me as, I’m a full human first. During my last year, I was able to play Orlando in As You Like It, and it wasn’t race-specific. I was just Orlando, not the Native American Orlando, he’s not the Asian Orlando, I was just Orlando, and that was one of the first times I played a non-race-specific role professionally. All of my other roles were like Native man and Asian kid, so OSF helped to tear that down, help m grow up and really love myself.
M: Beautiful. Then after that, you manage to snag the opportunity of a lifetime. You star as Sasappis in CBS’ hit comedy Ghosts, the blunt troublemaker that bides time in the afterlife by causing mischief around the house for other characters in the show. How did you manage to snag such an incredible opportunity as this one? And how has it been shifting from Shakespearean plays to being an actor on a hit comedy series? Because that is nuts.
R: Man, you said it right—it is nuts. I thank the creator, I thank the universe, it was just luck with me being in the right place at the right time. They were going to shoot the pilot in March 2020, but then the pandemic hit. So then they picked it up again in December 2020; I auditioned for it on a Tuesday sometime in November, and then by next Tuesday, I was on set. And that’s unheard of for a series regular. So, I just got so lucky, and it’s such a specific character, and Sasappis is just so over it, this loop day after day. My character is stuck with people he isn’t really jazzed about, and he’s just in this purgatory; in December 2020, I reached a threshold, I was so annoyed with everything. I was doing self-tape after self-tape and not hearing anything back, every day was the same, and I kept thinking, “what is my life?” And then I had that audition, and I brought all of that energy to it. I went in there like, “I don’t care, I’m not going to hear anything back, this is a CBS show, they’re not going to care” (they both laugh), but that was the exact energy they needed. But it’s been absolutely nuts; I’m just pinching myself every day that I had a chance to go to set when we were shooting in Montreal: an absolute dream. I love the city, the cast, the crew, Joe Port, Joe Weismann—the greatest showrunners ever. We were flying back to LA last night, and they were sitting right in front of me, and I was like, “oh my God” this is—this is crazy to me! This is a dream I had since I was a kid; I was obsessed with How I Met Your Mother, Parks & Rec… I’m such a sitcom guy.
M: Oh, shoot! Dude, me too, look at us—we’re practically best friends.
R: I feel it! But the only thing is those shows barely have people of color!
M: I know! Like why can’t we be in those situations?
R: Right, but being able to be on a primetime tv show and hearing that nine million people are watching this—I think one of the biggest things for me, though, has been the individual people who reach out to me on Instagram. For example, there was this Native woman who teaches at a school in Utah, and she has one Native kid in her class. They had superhero day one day, and he came in dressed in buckskins. The teacher looked at him and asked what superhero he was supposed to be, and he said, “Sasappis from Ghosts” she reached out to me, and I was bawling. This is when representation matters. It’s so cool; it’s been a real dream.
M: That’s absolutely true. And how would you say working on the OSF has helped you get ready for the limelight on primetime television? Or has it been an entirely different experience in its own right?
R: Well, what’s amazing is that most of our [Ghosts] cast are theatre-trained. I’m working with people who have legendary experience from the stage to improv to classical theatre, and it makes me feel at home when I’m on set. Sometimes we’ll break out into some Shakespeare monologues, or some of us break into some musical theatre stuff. But acting-wise, having that classical training behind me—I don’t have a lot, but even with the little bit that I have—it always helps through the little beats and nuisances that can help you along the way. But also the biggest thing is being free to play, that’s what I love about theatre because of course every night you’re doing the same material, but you’re always in the moment. You have to learn how to react and make it new, different every night as you embrace what it means to be a player and to play. And that’s what our set on Ghosts is. It’s very much a “come to play” environment, and honestly, that was hard for me when we first started because I was just so nervous, and I was like, “oh, God, I want to say something, but I shouldn’t because it won’t be funny” and then I got to the point after one of the episodes where I said something and everyone was like “hah! That’s funny,” and I immediately thought “oh crap, I should just dive into this a little more and embrace it.” So, it has been just an amazing experience and a learning experience for me as I shed that insecurity, reminding myself that I am enough, and then once you do that, you can come to play. And it’s just so much fun.
M: Speaking to all your castmates from Ghost, with all the interesting ghosts that appear in the house on the show, it kind of feels like the show is a who’s who of American history. Do you know if that was deliberate or not? I know this show is an adaptation of a BBC series, so I’m curious as to how that American angle plays into each ghost’s significance.
R: Totally, it was definitely deliberate, and I think that is one of the really exciting things about adapting a British show. Of course, there are so many similarities to that show and hats off to BBC Ghosts, they’re so amazing, and we owe so much to them. But it’s also really exciting how we can go in a different direction, especially with American history that has its own crazy flaws, man; it has some crazy stuff. And I have been really proud of the Joes who haven’t been afraid to dive into a little bit about that, and I’m excited as we continue that. They don’t shy away from talking about racism like let’s talk about it, let’s talk about the fact….yeah (they immediately begin laughing at the common knowledge of what Roman was about to speak on). How deep do we want to go?
M: (Still laughing) So, while we’re still on the topic of identity, I do want to make sure we cover a short film that you’re going to be a producer on. I believe it’s called This Is Their Land. And when I got the email about it, I believe it was in post-production. So could you explain to the people what that short film is all about and why it’s a passion project for you?
R: Yeah! This Is Their Land is a film that I’m producing…co-producing…and it’s the real story of the Modoc War from 1872-1873 that occurred in Northern California, where today is the Lava Bed’s National Monument. But it’s the nine-month war between the Modoc People and the US Army, and it’s just an incredible story that I never learned. I grew up in California, and we didn’t learn about the 1870s, and this is something I’m really passionate about. It’s important for other communities and for me today to learn that this happened, and it sucks, and it’s scary, difficult to talk about, and yes, white people, I know you feel guilty about it and let’s embrace that but let’s make something out of that. And I think that is the beauty of this project because it sheds light on it in a very human way. Michael O’Leary wrote and directed it, and I really got signed on to the project because I was about to boycott it. I was like, “yo, this white boy writing this Native story, what is he doing?” And then I ended up getting involved, and we engaged with the tribe, multiple consultants who are direct descendants of the people who fought in this war and half of the film is in their traditional language, so we hired one of the people who still teach that language. Shoutout to Joe Dupree; he’s amazing. But, yeah, more and more, I realized This is what I want to do with the platform that I have and the experience that I have to shed light on things that we are neglecting. And language revitalization is a huge thing in many of the different Native communities, and it’s something that I am very passionate about; I want to help in any way that I can. This project is really for the descendants of the Native people who fought in that war, first and foremost. The film festival circuit blah blah blah whatever but its really for those families and communities. Also, to have them hear their language on screen, it may have been featured in documentaries here and there but never in a narrative film. I’m excited about this; we’re in post-production, we’re so close, and we might have a couple of different cuts of the film because we’re doing cut right now for this specific showcase that has to have the project be shorter, but it’s a powerful piece, I mean even my dad is in it. But it’s really focused on the Modoc; there are white characters, sure, but they’re the supporting characters. The Modoc is what this story is all about. This is a film about Native people, and they are driving their narrative.
M: Dude (gestures a round of applause), that was beautiful. So between Ghosts and This Is Their Land, there is an emphasis on identity and staying true to who you are and being that beacon of light for Native people who may haven’t been able to see themselves properly represented or Asian representation on that level. What do you want to say to the people regarding what they can expect from these two projects?
R: I want them to take away…I want them to see the normalcy of it and how this is the new normal—telling stories about people who have been oppressed for so long and haven’t been able to tell their stories; that’s the new normal. And how these stories are universal, just because you don’t have the same skin color as them or the same culture doesn’t mean you won’t be able to relate to them. These are human stories first, and of course, if you feel represented, that means the world, but also, if that character doesn’t look like you, you can still relate to them and connect to them. And that’s is what I love about Sasappis because while he is Native, he is just a guy who is over it, and I think we all can relate to that. Especially when we’re trapped in a house with a bunch of people that we don’t want to be trapped with (they both laugh). We can relate to people across nationality and race, and that’s what I love about Ghosts. Not only do you have people from different ethnic backgrounds but different time periods that are connecting. In my opinion, it’s transforming what diversity is; you have different backgrounds and time periods, but people are coming together saying, “we can be friends, and we can make this a good place.”
