A quadruple threat with the ambitions of a superstar from a bygone era of musical greatness, ToBy is most definitely on a mission. With his debut album L’Esprit arriving on October 15th, smooth cameos and appearances on Buzzfeed, a knack for stand up comedy and a promising acting career, the rising artist is dipping his toes in what seems to be every market under the sun while managing to shine just as bright as the aforementioned flaming star.
I sat down to discuss his latest single and video for “Are We Ridin,” looking to Donald Glover as inspiration, the deep connection with his grandmother, and the importance of timing in his debut album L’Esprit.
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This was the conversation that took place.
Marc: Yo, what’s good, bro, bro! How are you doing?
ToBy: Man, I’m feeling good, how are you doing?
M: I’m well, thank you for agreeing to do this!
T: Of course, bro!
M: With everything that I have seen from you—your music, your comedic chops, you as an enticing personality—you are clearly a multi-talented threat. How does your range of talents inform or inspire your next moves as an artist?
T: Yeah, for sure, so it all informs itself and each other. I think my music wouldn’t be what it was if I wasn’t funny; I’ve always enjoyed making people laugh and putting a smile on their faces; comedy and humor adds a bit of color to the palette for everything I do, whether it’s writing, music, acting and I think I have grown to develop a good sense of timing. I feel that the various levels of interests I have sort of feed each other in that way. A lot of people like to think of these various avenues as different, and it’s not; some people think I have to switch modes or something to really get in my bag, but that isn’t the case. It all exists in the same swirling pool of creativity, and you can always learn something from a different mode of creativity.
M: It’s funny you bring up timing because in the creative world, and maybe even beyond, timing is everything, and I can definitely get a sense for your growing mastery of the art of timing, especially in your videos, thematic structure in your songs, and your lyrical content. The timing has to be just right so that each informs the other; it’s pretty sick (they both laugh).
T: Thank you, man, thank you. It’s definitely what I wanted to hear at this time of day; you’re giving me the perfect 9 a.m. pick me up (they both laugh).
M: Glad I could do that for you! But how deep does the art of timing lend itself to the construction of your upcoming album and your artistry as a whole?
T: Absolutely. Well, I look at it from the standpoint of…okay, so here’s something about me I can’t draw, I can’t paint, my hands are useless (laughs) no it’s true, I do not have a sense of visual handcraft. But what I pride myself in is the ability to apply some of those techniques to my music, my writing, the sonics. You really want to make it look like everything is supposed to be there, so you’re not going to expose the lines of the drawing per se unless you’re aiming for that, but for me, I want to make it look natural. So with timing, and you’re right, starting out that was everything for me, and I feel like that’s what it is for a lot of rappers’ first uphill battle, especially with how do I make myself sound good sonically on a track and what sounds/lyrics are supposed to be here, at what time do I say what, and how do I make myself sound authentic, and timing is definitely a huge part of that. I dealt with that a lot at the beginning of my journey.
I learned how to engineer and produce, and that new knowledge and repertoire of studio techniques allowed me to get into the nitty-gritty of what timing means to my artistry. It definitely allowed for me to understand how to make all of this blending of my various artistry feel a little more natural, more cohesive; cohesion is always the end game. And in regards to the actual album rollout, I’ve always wanted to put an album out. I dabbled with projects like an EP, unofficial mixtapes, compilations, but nothing with that album mindset that really plays with the art of timing. And I really look up to Tyler, the Creator and Childish Gambino, those dudes with creative concept-minded dudes; those are my guys. So, when it came to my album, I knew it had to be on that caliber of timing and cohesion; I needed a strong concept, something that I was personally connected to, and I needed a story that the world would want to hear.
M: And that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to do this interview with you. No, not because I wanted to sit and talk about how much you remind me of a Donald Glover (they both laugh) but because the ceiling for your artistry, if you are studying greats like Tyler and Childish, that ceiling is non-existent. And because you’re dabbling in all of the same things that artists like Donald Glover are immersed in, I felt that there was something more to you than just ToBy, the rapper; you have the ability to become anything you want, and it really shines through in your personality and comedy—which is why this art of timing is so important for you I feel.
T: No, yeah, I agree. Because without timing, the simplest thing could throw your whole shit off, causing your expected artistic trajectory to be altered.
M: Right, and I feel like with your single “Are We Ridin?” And your album L’Esprit—a word used to signal that someone has passed on—all of these themes flowing cohesively into one another…it just makes sense that you would look up to someone like Glover, who thrives in connecting almost everything he does back to each other, the comparison is definitely there. With that being said, how is your single “Are We Riding?” connecting itself to the overarching theme of your album—a dedication to your grandma. And my apologies for being so long-winded; I just get so excited when talking about music, man (they both laugh).
T: Nah, dude, you’re good, you’re killing it. And that is a really great question for sure, so for “Are We Riding?” in particular…as you’ll notice when you hear the album, it has a lot of valleys and a lot of peaks—it’s an emotional roller coaster modeled after what I’ve been through and experienced, a chronicling of all those different inclinations. I think the tie-in is me, ToBy as a person and an artist, which is the whole point. The album is narrated by my late grandmother, but the whole point of the album is to serve as an introduction to who I am.
It’s a very personal work that’s concept-driven that almost feels like a journal of a peer into my mind. So with “Are We Ridin,” it’s one of those peaks, it’s one of those flex songs, one of those braggadocio songs because man, I feel like with the years I spent doing music…lyrically I have been in the gym. I take this shit seriously. I love rap, I love rapping, I love new percussive elements, and I can appreciate it wherever it hides. So on “Are We Ridin,” it was definitely me showcasing that, and it comes through on the album’s sequencing, and I’ve thought about this intensively as well; it comes through at the moment with deep insecurity on the album towards the end. I’m leaving it all on the table, and I’m really lifting a weight, so to speak… Atlas with a rock on his back…its some climatic shit. And if you see the show, I’m not sure if you’ll ever catch the show, but hopefully, we can make something happen after this.
M: Hopefully, yeah.
T: That song in particular, though, not to give anything away (laughs), but I think that song is maybe three minutes? When we do it live, it’s about six minutes. That song, man….” Are We Ridin,” is the moment on the album, for sure.
M: Damn, I mean just to hear that you added layers to the experience of the song as it exists as a single, when you’re performing it live and of course on the album; that’s truly an ode to your love for the art of timing. And not only that but what it means to you as the person not only writing it but you as the person experiencing that, that’s a pretty big deal. Do you think the other records that come after “Are We Riding” punctuate what you’re getting at on that song, or do those songs serve a different approach to the overall thematic concept?
T: That’s a really good question, and I really don’t want to spoil it (laughs). If you texted me about it, I’d definitely tell you about it, but I think it’s got to be something that listeners have to experience.
M: I mean, when people are reading this interview, I think that they will be able to see that little bit about you not wanting to spoil it, and it will probably inspire people to want to listen to this album to see what the surprise is.
T: Always think from the angle of marketing (they both laugh); always think about this from the perspective of marketing!
M: Nah, I feel that (laughs). Did you like the way I gave you that alley-oop? Real Dwayne Wade-like (they both).
T: Oh hell yeah, man! We gotta sell these albums, bro; I appreciate you! (The laughter continues to swell).
M: Word, bro (laughs). I don’t want you getting in trouble or anything for telling Marvel Studios level-spoilers, so I’ll let that one slide (laughs). So, tell me about this track you have called “2FUCKINCOCKY,” which is a 2010 inspired Soundcloud era rap song, and if anybody was on SoundCloud at that time, then you already know what the vibes are. What could you tell me about this track, and is it in the same vein as the lyrical chaos that listeners have heard on “Are We Ridin” as well?
T: Yeah, I can definitely answer this question. I would say it’s more chaos. It’s near the top of the sequence, so we’re really hitting people in the face with it all. I think the best way to really describe the sonics and the construction of that song is what if Slipknot made “Sicko Mode” (laughs). Look, I listen to “2FUCKINCOCKY” and you know from talking to me I’m a calm dude, I’m pretty level-headed, I read comic books, I’m docile, I listen to that song that though and I’m like “who the hell is this guy rapping?” (laughs). This song is one of those bar games that I was referring to earlier, it’s definitely a pen challenge, and I was adamant about getting the track perfect and getting minimal punch-ins because the flow was just so percussive. And I say percussive because I have always viewed Hip-Hop through the perspective of a drummer as drums were some of the first instruments I picked up. I always looked up to Questlove and Buddy Rich, really good drummers, niggas with really good chops. So I was like yeah, let me do those chops with my voice the same way that they would do it with their hands—
M: Wait, you said…you said nigga…? I don’t mind cutting you off man, my apologies, but it just dawned on me that we are both Black and that we can…we can say nigga in this interview to each other. I mean, it shouldn’t matter that much, but this is kind of a big deal—
T: No, wait, you’re right, yeah we can most definitely say nigga in this interview, that deserves recognition, diversity deserves to celebrate! (Laughs) Nah, but I saw your Zoom profile picture, and I’m like, ah fuck did I just trip him out by saying nigga just now, and he can’t see my picture? (They both laugh).
M: Yeah, it threw me off for a bit. I can’t lie, I was like, the wait, is he supposed to be saying that because I totally forgot that we were both Black (laughs) what a mess, but we’re good, we’re good!
T: Hell yeah, we’re good, so many spaces dominated by white artists/people, so it be kind of shocking to see our people why we’re doing interviews like these, but when it happens, it’s super beautiful! So, yeah, glad to have you here, my nigga!
M: Fasho, my nigga! Alright (laughs), back to the topic, again my apologies for cutting you off and derailing this interview, bro (laughs).
T: No worries at all, dude, that was a genuinely awesome moment (laughs) can’t make that up, and I’m glad I got to provide you with the ability to say nigga during an interview (they both laugh).
But back to the percussive discussion, so with flows and syllables, and I also have a background in writing as well, so things like iambic pentameter come into play, and it gives my flow a bit of academic element to it—as I said, I take this very seriously. I took my time in studying and preparing to rap as much as I did with the art of rapping itself. “2FUCKINCOCKY” allowed for me to say I want to impress; if this is my first album and people pick this up saying they want to take a chance on a new artist, then I want to leave nothing back; it all on the table. I want to show listeners what they’re signing up for.
As for the SoundCloud era influence, that was something that came about really organically. The producer and I, You Can Do It, Nicky, we’re still really cool; it’s each other and that SoundCloud era was our shit. Damn, that white boy crazy, I’m not even gon front that white boy is crazy (laughs) that’s really my boy for real. We would pull up to campus, and I wasn’t whipping anything fancy, but my windows would be down, and we would blast “Look At Me” or something at this acting school. So, it was definitely out of place, but that’s the shit we bonded over, and we would send tracks to each other back and forth. Then he eventually sent me a beat pack, and those were originally two different separate songs. So when it came time to sequence the album and write it, I was like, “these are two of the loudest songs that I have ever made.” They’re loud, they’re ignorant and also really rehearsed, they’re clean, they’re tight. And I was like, what would happen if I mashed them together and made just one dope song, and I feel like I did.
M: So, I know behind throughout the album listeners will be met with the voice of your late grandma, and there is a voicemail or a couple of voicemails on this album from her.
T: Yeah, actually, this is going to be a weird way of describing this, but have you ever played God of War? Where you’re marking niggas and Athena show up, and she’s like, “you shouldn’t do that” yeah, that’s kind of how her voice is on the album. Yeah, it’s kind of like that, a spirit guide, she was…if I could just talk about her for a moment.
M: yeah, do your thing, man.
T: So, my grandmother was always a person in my life who was super special and most definitely my best friend. And a lot of the time we had when I was older and, she did raise me and was seen as more of a disciplinary figure to me when I was a child, but as I got older, I didn’t need that anymore, and our relationship transitioned to friends a lot easier than it did with my parents—that felt more like a journey down a road of maturing and what not—but with my grandmother is very different. She would just give me advice on things and sit down and talk with me, unasked for, but she would just be there kind of like your homies would do. It felt like she did it for catharsis for herself, but she was guiding, always loving with grace, she was a very gracious person, and I felt like in order for people to best understand me, they would need to understand her and my relationship to her. So I mentioned the structure of the album earlier, and my grandmother’s voice has a lot to do with that.
M: That’s beautiful, and based on the research I did on you, you have a Haitian background, correct?
T: Yes, that’s correct.
M: So, the way you structured the album also makes sense culturally; I’m not sure if you did that on purpose, but it’s what I noticed. It seems like this album is doing much more than just telling a story through one of your best friends and closest relatives. It seems like it’s almost like an homage to Haitian culture. Not saying you went out of your way to deliberately do that, but I know a bit about Haitian spirituality and even just our culture as Black people and how much our ancestors play a part in who we are and what we do in life. Your grandmother being a guiding voice on this album as a spirit, was that a nod to your Haitian roots? I don’t want to project on you or anything, but if it is, could you talk to me about why you felt it was important to connect with those roots?
T: Wow. Okay, so I’m going to give you some incredibly deserved props for that question and explanation and bring up something that I hadn’t considered (they both laugh) like, well, shit, you on some shit. And you’re exactly right, that Haitian culture is deeply embedded and rooted in ancestral pride and guidance. I grew up learning about people in my family that were dead long before I was born through stories and whatnot. But as for this album’s genesis…that is some context that I hadn’t even considered or even crossed my mind. Truly and honestly, where I was concerned and mostly approaching the work was through… I’m not going to deny that inclination because it definitely is a way for people to interpret what’s going on, but I can say where I was making it, my reasons were a bit more selfish and not like in a “I’m going to sell a bunch of albums and get fortune and fame,” but just I have a lot of emotions and sentiment coming through on this album. I’m an emotionally connected person to my feelings and whatnot; the same way I’m trying to be super nice on the mic is the same way that I approach opening up and sharing my feelings when I’m rapping as well. This album was therapy that I couldn’t afford; it’s me working through that shit. I found out about her diagnosis a year before I went into production, right about 2019, so I was living with that impending end date for a while, and it was taking a toll on me. So making the album and including that voice note, I was building an animus in a sense for when she was no longer I could listen to her until I passed away. I could listen to her voice and could talk to her again.
M: Like a bridge.
T: Literally. Literally like a bridge. And I’m not gon front, bro, it got hard, man. I was flying to Haiti in November of 2020 to say goodbyes, and I was getting mixes back from the label like, hey, listen to this and tell me what you think. The whole thing was her voice over and over again, and I’m seeing her in her final moments. That was some rough shit, but it was necessary, and it was definitely the reason for it. But if what you said about the connection to culture and spirituality is the takeaway, then I’m glad because that is…that is dope. You do some shit, and you think, “yeah, I made a really nice apple pie,” and somebody goes, “no, that is a painting” (laughs); well, fuck, I can’t argue with that. So, I applaud you for thinking deeper about my work and taking that particular angle away from this art.
M: For sure, man, I was just doing my research into who you are, and that angle just made sense to me, especially with your grandmother in mind. Such a creatively insightful conversation we got here, and speaking of that, how far are you going to go creatively outside of your music? As mentioned earlier, you are heavily inspired by Donald Glover, so I have to ask, are we going to get a Miami version of Atlanta in the future? (laughs). You have such a brilliant personality, and I have watched the Buzzfeed video with the cake, and they absolutely loved you in the comments, so it’s safe to say that you’ll be back in that realm. But I want you to tell us what we can expect from ToBy in his endeavors outside of music.
T: Thank you so much for asking me that; I really do appreciate it. As for Buzzfeed…I think people like me depending on the video you click on because I have a recent video with them, and I’m getting destroyed in the comments. Those comments are not nice (laughs), But that is a good question. I mean, everyone has a five-year plan, and I’m not holding it close to my chest or anything like that, but music, while it is fulfilling and sustaining, it’s just one prong on the trident. Like I don’t want else I could find myself getting into, I’m producing for other artists now on some Tyler shit, in regards to acting I’m represented, and I’m going out for shit all the time, so you may see me on the big screen soon, I have my Denny’s commercials, and I’m really cool with the team over there so you may hear me in a couple more pancake promos (they both laugh). Always tight with Buzzfeed, I love my people over at Buzzfeed, and I’m sure I’ll be back over there soon, and yeah, I want it all. In the words of a great 16th-century poet named Pop Smoke, “I walk in the spot as I want it all.”
M: RIP to Pop Smoke, by the way. And last question. What do you want fans to take away from your album coming out on Friday and from reading this interview about you as a person and you the artist?
T: Interesting. As a person, I want people to take away that I’m doing doable shit, I’m doing hard shit, shit that kind of seems impossible and time-consuming, but it’s doable, and if you are sent to do it too, it is not outside of your capabilities. We all have different circumstances, walks of life and qualities of life, obstacles and limitations but what I’m going after is in front of anybody that wants it; the only difference is distance. So dedicating yourself to that road, and that journey starts and ends with you.
What do I want people to take away from the album? I’m thinking about this, sorry…I think the mission statement, if I could sum the album up in two sentiments, would be first; it’s a bad day, not a bad life. The truth is things will get shitty; I’m not an optimist (laughs). I’m not a “optimist prime,” but it’s inevitable that you will have a bad day. You’re gonna lose your wallet on the couch, and it’s going to suck, but it won’t be like that all the time. There are pockets of happiness and joy in this cacophonous virtual hell we find ourselves in (laughs); if you write that down, I will laugh!
M: Oh, I’m definitely writing that down!
T: My manager is going to yell at me for saying shit like that, but (laughs) here is the second sentiment for you; it’s actually from Bojack Horseman, but it stuck with me. It “when you go through life wearing rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.” And I listen to my album, and I go, “damn, I had so much investment in some of these relationships, and there were so many things that I refused to see.” life is crazy like that.
M: It truly is man, well thank you for agreeing to do this once again, man. Such a blast to talk to you and do this interview definitely an extremely enjoyable experience for me, so I thank you!
T: You asked some great questions, man, and it was super dope to do this. Thank you for having me!
L’Esprit releases October 15th and the video for “Are We Ridin” can be seen here.
