If you are anywhere on the internet then you have surely heard of These Violent Delights and its breakout, one-of-a-kind author, Chloe Gong.
These Violent Delights (along with its sequel, Our Violent Ends) took the book world by storm upon its release and is still a bestseller. While the story itself is amazing and has amassed a fanbase of its own, Gong — who wrote the first novel while being a full-time university student — is a story all unto herself. She drew attention and praise for putting out such a stellar debut alongside earning her degree. Most recently, she has released Foul Lady Fortune, a brand new story set in the same world of glittering Shanghai.
The young writer is only just getting started, and we were lucky enough to be able to sit and chat with her recently about her writing process, the inspirations behind her writing, and what she has coming up.
Sidenote: This interview was edited with “Midnights” by Taylor Swift on loop; the only way we felt appropriate to edit a piece about Chloe Gong.
Mehreen Mahida: How are you doing? You have a complete duology out, the first book of a second duology out, a New Adult fantasy out next year, and you are all over the country doing promotion while working on your next project. Are you used to all the wondrous chaos yet?
Chloe Gong: You know, I debuted, three years ago and to this day, I’m still not used to it. Because I always went into this career kind of thinking like, “Oh, it’s just something that I’ll kind of do because I really enjoy this and I want to try to make it happen. To try to get published.” So the fact that my debut did well, Our Violent Ends did well, and now Foul Lady Fortune is doing well, I’m just grateful for the people reading. It’s never dawned on me that I’m actually a professional doing this.
Sanah Sindha: My introduction to These Violent Delights is when it was an ARC on Net Galley, and I remember on Twitter, a few people got it and they would not shut up about it. Everyone sort of thought that it was a backlist title that was rediscovered just because of how many people were talking about it. Then it finally came out and it was huge, which was amazing.
Chloe: Yeah, I mean, I’m always honored when people are talking about it. Does that make sense? Like it blows my mind because for so long, I had been the reader gushing about these books online. So to have it flipped and have people talk about these creations that I just made up in my head. I’m like, “Wow, thanks. Thanks for loving my kids”.
Sanah: Of course! Also, in your author’s note, you touch on the role that history plays in your books, which obviously is a huge point for the first duology and this one as well. So how, if at all, was it different integrating historical events into Foul Lady Fortune compared to the first duology?
Chloe: I think when I integrate history, I take around the same approach for both duologies where I did a lot of research into the true historical context. I use that as an informer for the kind of plots that I make up. This duology was more about using political context to inform character decisions and move them forward with their personal perspectives whereas These Violent Delights was more about exterior surroundings applying pressure on them. So, for These Violent Delights, it was Western imperialism focused, it was about these British and American groups, who were applying threats on their way of life and how these gangs were juggling that, whereas Foul Lady Fortune relies on how the Japanese Empire has started marching in. And using that informational backdrop, I came up with the spy plotline, the intelligence officers, the motive for why there are dead bodies turning up everywhere, etc. So yeah, the approach usually tends to be similar in the sense that I’m not trying to outright portray history, because you know, it’s a novel. Inherently, my intention is going to be to use it to make up my own things. But I always want to stay true to the kind of atmosphere that was going on at the time. I hope that readers picking up this book to be able to imagine that these characters were real people living at this time and that there are these varied and nuanced perspectives coming from multiple sides responding to the situation. Rather than being a one mouthpiece thing for like, “Oh, this is how everyone thought, in 1931 Shanghai”. Because even today, there’s no such thing as one monolithic thought of this is what people think about an issue; everyone is always disagreeing at all times. I want my slices of history to feel like that.
Sanah: That actually leads me to my next question, which was, how did you decide which issues, in particular, you wanted to prioritize?
Chloe: I think that comes back to the historical research I do. I usually try to pinpoint whatever would have been at the forefront of people’s minds, like in that specific time period. And I knew when I switched from the 20s to 30s, that there was a tangible shift. Because in the 20s, the First World War had very shortly just ended and in Shanghai the people were kind of finding their footing and dealing with how they felt about these foreign groups. Then other really important historical milestones are happening around this time, like in 1931, Japan invaded Manchuria. And just by the kind of news articles, primary source diaries, and interviews that people gave at this time, I found that the focus turned. There was one propaganda news piece in Shanghai at that time, that said, “The Westerners are our friends, let’s come together to defeat Japan,” and just having these news lines at this time tells me what people were actually worried about. That’s how I kind of build my plots. I didn’t want to hold on to this, “Oh, we’re so concerned about this thing from the 20s” when in history, people have started shifting gears.
Sanah: What would you say came to you first when writing both books, the history or the characters?
Chloe: The characters! The characters are kind of the heart of the story, what I’m trying to get at. Then I’ll find what the historical setting was to further inform the character. It’s kind of like a constant feedback loop, right? Even though the characters come to me first, the characters then become inseparable from the setting. Because who they then become is very informed by the push and pull of there settings and surroundings. So with These Violent Delights, I wanted to tell a story about rival families and the children at war with each other. Then that became informed by this 1920s, Shanghai setting. Then with Foul Lady Fortune, I wanted to give Rosalind her own story and to see what it takes to move someone who only gets lies and distrust, and who they become, if they are given like love instead. And with that intention, I’m thinking, “Okay, let’s work with spies and having to play pretend. Let’s make that political atmosphere into a very interpersonal struggle that Rosalind has to work through to them”. I know that I’ve done it once they feel impossible to detangle.
Sanah: Amazing! We were also wondering for These Violent Delights, did you always know that you wanted it to be a sort of Romeo Juliet retelling? Or did you have any other plays that you wanted to base it on?
Chloe: I didn’t know that it would be a Shakespeare retelling. At first it was that I wanted to write a blood feud story. But, the more I worked with that plotline, the more I thought that I couldn’t write it without everyone comparing it to Romeo and Juliet. The more I thought about it, the more I was thinking, it’s almost more interesting to me if I fully embrace that point of comparison, because then I’m actively reimagining something instead of trying to shy away from a possible comparison. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense.
Sanah: How was it putting those characters into those Shakespeare roles?
Chloe: I tended to think of it as, in a sense, I was writing a fan fiction. I put the original existing characters into a new setting; They came re-informed, and we took it from there. It was, you know, Russian Romeo and Chinese Juliet, and we’ll go from there, we’ll see how that turns out. I think people just by hearing those words know it’s suddenly very different from the Romeo and Juliet in Verona that we’re familiar with. As soon as you change these core identity aspects, it’s a whole different world. To me, it seems like Juliet Capulet has always had a bit of a steel core. And I was thinking if instead of this patriarchal, family-heavy society, she became this girl who was the head of a gang, where rules aren’t as important anymore, her personality would shift based off that one little thing. Then Romeo in his original iteration is very soft. If we pull that out, how does that change in this new setting? So it was the same process for all the characters.
Sanah: We did all expected Marshall to die, we as a readership. And I thought you did it for a second.
Chloe: That was very intentional, because I think that’s the fun of a retelling. People come in with expectations. Then you either meet those expectations, or you defy those expectations in ways that play off of the original. So that was a lot of fun to kind of be like, “Oh, yes, look, I follow the retelling. I follow the play. JK. No, I didn’t”.
Sanah: What was it like doing this specific research for this book and framing the setting? Because it all played like such a huge role, it’s like a character in itself. So what was that like for you?
Chloe: I am very visual writer so when I’m depicting a setting in particular, I really need to be able to see it. So, when I put it onto the page, my ultimate aim is for it to unfold in a reader’s mind. Like, I am very overly attached to sitting to a point where sometimes in edits, I have to cut things down because I’ve gone on and on and on about a streetlight for way too many paragraphs. So, I will always go back to people’s accounts from the time because I think a lot of that real life observation translates very well into narrative fiction. The issue a lot of the time is that I do my research in English, because my Chinese isn’t good enough to go to original Chinese sources. That usually means I’m reading from like, British expats or American tourists. And when they describe things like, I pick up a lot of useful stuff about the shops and the atmosphere, but then they’re also just flinging slurs around. So it’s a very careful balance of picking up as much research as I can, and then having to filter through the bias. Because sometimes they’ll describe “dirty, dripping, rickshaw riders”, and then you go to native resources and it’s not true. They just made that up, because that’s how they perceive like the local people. So it’s, yeah, there’s a lot of bias to work through. And while I will do my own research in English, I found this really helpful as well to use my parents as a resource. Iv’e asked them to go check Chinese websites, and then just get on the phone with them to explain things to me.
Sanah: It’s kind of cute the part that they’re able to play a part in your books.
Chloe: Yeah, it’s really, really nice.
Sanah: With TVD did you know from the beginning how you wanted it to end or like, was it just fun to figure things out as you went along?
Chloe: I was writing most of TVD, like movie; I knew exactly how it was ending. All the foreshadowing that you see very early on in These Violent Delights was intentional. Like, there’s an encounter that Juliet and Tyler have in chapter two or three, that explicitly describes how their last encounter is going to go in OVE, because I had already known, how that scene would draw out. Sometimes foreshadowing is really funny how it works out. Because on occasion, I will go back and read what I already have and I unintentionally will have foreshadowing.
Mehreen: Did you go in with a certain idea of a character’s personality and backstory and then go back and change them to be a bit more dark or a bit more “sunshine”?
Chloe: With Tyler, he was always just supposed to be a random power threat lying around. I never intended to give him too much depth. I think you should know what is important for the reader and what is important for the story at large that you’re trying to tell, sometimes the little details are not as relevant. But, the more that I was writing OVE, the more that I wanted to put in tiny details to humanize annoying characters, because at the end of the day, like they are still people. Especially as I was thinking about how I was then gonna take on a Rosalind-centric duology. I was just thinking to myself, that if we had retold the entire duality from Tyler’s shoes, it would be a very different book; you would sympathize with him, because you would certainly see the entire world from his perspective. So yeah, Tyler had started out much more annoying. And then eventually, I gave him more insight to understand it why he thinks these things, the certain delusions he’s under, and how he’s operating under certain information.
Sanah: I think that did make it more impactful when Juliet had to do what she did. Has there been any fan reactions to this one or the first duology that has surprised you, anything you didn’t expect?
Chloe: I was surprised at how much people loved Alisa.
Mehreen: Oh, really? She’s one of my favorite characters.
Chloe: I would slip into her POV when I needed a break from the heavy stuff. And she was kind of always the eyes looking around. She was just a little scamp and people really liked her. And you know, of course, I love her as well, but I kind of just expected people to think she was a cool character. People liked her to the point where when we announced the second duology-
Mehreen : I thought it was gonna her!
Chloe: Yeah, and I was very intrigued by that because from where I was standing I was thinking that a protagonist needs trauma in order to lead a story. You need to put them in a low spot and they need a lot of conflict if they’re going to carry a duology so then I was thinking like “Wow, you guys want me to put Elisa through that?”. To me she’s always been a big side character, in the best way, because side characters get the fun without getting the intensive world threats on their shoulders. Yeah, so it is it has intrigued me you know in a very good way.
Mehreen: Was there anything that you enjoyed writing but going back and reading it, did you have a different favorite scene to read?
Chloe: Oh, that’s really good question. I don’t know if I do. I think a lot of my favorite scenes that I write do end up being the favorites of that stuff. They tend to be the like character relationship climactic scenes. Because I love drama. I love the characters that scream at each other or solve something together. In TVD it was when they finally got to just yell at each other and release the secrets that they had been hiding basically. In OVE it was their marriage scene, I just love the scenes that I’ve been building up towards. And when I have so much fun writing, I hope it comes through and the reader gets to it too.
Mehreen: Yeah, I think it does translate well if that is any consolation. We do have a few rapid fire questions for you for a little fun send off. What’s your favorite fictional ship in literature and a movie?
Chloe: The moment you ask me these questions, I’m like, suddenly I forget every single show that I’m invested in. Oh, no, I know what it is. One of my favorite ships of all time is Blue and Gansey, from the Raven Cycle. Then Styles and Lydia from “Teen Wolf”.
Sanah: Yes! They were the blueprint!
Mehreen : Okay, books currently on your TBR.
Chloe: XOXO by Axi Oh and The Three Body Problem by Liu Cixin.
Mehreen: And finally, current inspiration? In any way you want to take that.
Chloe: Anticipation for Taylor Swift’s “Midnights”.
Pick up a copy of Chloe Gong’s Foul Lady Fortune, in stores wherever you buy books (but our POPTIZED team always suggests supporting your local independent bookstore!), along with her first duology These Violent Delights (see our review here!) and Our Violent Ends. Look out for her two novellas coming out February 2023.
